Comments on: Deaf Community vs. ASL Students

By: Mary Ellen Broske

Mary Ellen Broske — Wed, 07 Oct 2009 17:03:28 +0000

I can’t hear, but hesitate to say that I am deaf because I don’t know ASL. I find it really hard to learn. I’m not giving up but am waiting a while before I try another college class. I made a D last time. The teacher accused me of faking when I was watching and trying to remember what had been said, but could not remember long enough to respond toi her questions. I will try again.

As far as deaf chat groups go, etc. go, when I went to Deaf Events, the Deaf were very kind to me. I understood a lot from their body language, but have trouble with sentence structure etc. I will try again, just not now. I thought about looking for a tutor, but money is tight.

By: Fred K

Fred K — Sat, 11 Jul 2009 13:49:37 +0000

Me: Hearing ASL I student who thinks learning ASL is really kind of fun. I am working hard to get better at it. It’s a really useful language. I only need it to communicate better with my wife who is progressively more hard of hearing every year.

Well, I certainly don’t like talking with those dang foreigners who my company keeps hiring. If only they would get better at english. They are taking over the whole company. Lots of companies in fact. So if I isolate myself from them, I have no freinds to help me out in case I need a reference or need to change jobs. Well, maybe it’s not such a bad idea to associate with them after all.

I have always wondered where deaf people worked. In my entire career (20+ years in engineering), I have never worked in a company where there was a single deaf employee. Not in any capacity, anywhere. Yet companies go out of their way to reach out to foreigners in other countries and relocate them to the US so they can hire them. These are good paying jobs. If I were deaf, I’d be wanting to make connections everywhere I could, even if I had to tolerate some of those nasty hearing people taking ASL I. It might open up some big opportunities for me…

By: Meritta

Meritta — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 19:48:43 +0000

Hello. I am hearing and an ASL student and I am visiting this website because I wanted more information on d/Deaf etiquette. As an ASL student I am required to go out and communicate with a d/Deaf person to complete my grade in that class (!) Do I feel comfortable in my signing skills to do this? Not entirely. (I’m in ASL I) For instance, in the above Vlog, I can recognize specific signs, but I wouldn’t be able to follow that conversation.

As someone who values my free time, I understand why any d/Deaf person (or hearing person) would be annoyed at someone coming in and trying to talk when you’re just trying to have fun with friends.

I work at a wine bar in Winter Park, FL and thought it would be a better idea if I went on DeafChat or someplace similar and offered an invitation to come in. That way, d/Deaf people could be introduced to a new place (with a friendly face and someone who would try to communicate in their language) and it would be on their terms. I could get my experience and the d/Deaf person wouldn’t feel like their space/time is being disrupted. I’m willing to give my myspace address or email as a safer way of communicating? I don’t want anyone to think that I’m soliciting a business or being unsafe. I don’t know. I’d like some feedback on this idea. Is this acceptable?

By: jsimp

jsimp — Sat, 12 Apr 2008 05:13:11 +0000

I was an ASL student many years ago. I dropped out because of the requirement of going to deaf socials. I am a private person. I do not like being intruded upon and I’ll be darned if I do it to another. Nor will I sit back and watch someone like a psycho stalker. I am hard of hearing in one ear, my sister in law is total deaf in one ear, she had surgery to remove everything in there. Both know how hard it is to be at some level of hearing loss. However, we are NOT deaf. Unless one of us lose total hearing, we will never quite understand that world. Just like a deaf person will never understand mine. The joy I get from music, not feeling it, but hearing all the complex sounds and lyrics being sung. The voice singing just puts me in nirvana. I would truly be devastated if I lost that. In fact, I’d rather go blind.(knock on wood)
I recently decided to go back to finish my ASL, as I am unsure what will happen to my hearing in the future, or my SIL, and am not liking the idea of going to deaf club, asking for some person to sign my paper, while they are on recreation time. In fact, I’ll forge the thing if I have to. Its just plain rude. As far as this all goes. Well, I think Deaf people are a little high and mighty. You have a beautiful culture and should be proud, which most of you are, obviously. You can’t say we don’t understand, its a deaf thing, and then turn around and say, help me, I’m disabled and helpless. Your not helpless. Your strong. Yes, hearing people can be rude, but so can deaf people…every time they say its a deaf thing, you wouldn’t understand. well, make me understand. How about I make you understand about loud ringing in my ears and having vertigo, sometimes wishing the noise away. Or how sometimes I long for quiet in this loud electronic age? Would you ever understand the extreme headaches some of us hearing people get with noise? You know what noise pollution is? Yes, you know what it is, but you’ve never experience it really, at least not to a hearing person’s extent. HOWEVER!! You know what its like to have several people signing all at once to you and that is very similar. Not the same, but similar, and that’s where a common ground starts, in our similarities; not our differences.

By: QM

QM — Fri, 29 Feb 2008 23:32:08 +0000

Coming from an ASL student:
I agree with “Deaf Community vs. ASL Students” mostly. I also think there’s a way to reach a compromise. At my school, we host one silent dinner a month. Basically, we pick a restaurant and get together and sign for a couple hours. No talking is allowed. The ASL 1′s usually bring pen and paper the first few times but by second semester that’s supposed to be minimal. The deaf community is invited and some almost always come. Once you reach a point where you can have a really good conversation in ASL, you go to Deaf Chat Coffee. This is not required but considered the best way to learn the language. The highest compliment you can receive is for a deaf person to think you’re deaf. It’s actually happened a couple of times, and no, not all of them were Level 5 or even Level 4, sara g. How well a person learns a language depends on how committed to it they are.

I do understand why you want that time to talk with other deaf people but you shouldn’t scoff at those trying to learn your language. Teachers should definitely make sure their students understand etiquette before going out on their own.

Finally, if us asking questions is something you’re not in the mood to deal with, please just tell us. Politely would be nice, unless of course someone just can’t take a hint. Even the most perceptive can’t be expected to read minds.

By: Bill Maghan

Bill Maghan — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 06:51:54 +0000

ASL gets a lot of bible people. Other languages, maybe not.

By: bm

bm — Sun, 09 Dec 2007 11:20:07 +0000

Deaf and oral, still learning ASL (ASL III).

Personally, I think watching vlogs has helped me the most. I can watch them over and over again, guess the sign if I need to, and if imperative ask a Deaf friend or teacher. I’ve gone to Deaf socials in my ASL I days and I quickly learned “my place” as a student, so I never asked what’s the sign for (insert word here). I’ve asked before if one sign could mean accommodate, and if I was very comfortable I would just directly ask them. However, it was always, “Hello, my name is, I am hard-of-hearing (changed to Deaf recently).” and always carried on a normal conversation. For a while, I did not attend Deaf socials because I did not have proper language skill to carry on a short brief conversation without resorting to a lot of fingerspelling.

Patience is really important with ASL students. For fellow ASL III students, I will not slow down or code-switch but with ASL I I am happy to oblige, and sometimes I will even speak.

I think etiquette needs to be taught prior to sending the kids out on their own — NO asking what is the sign for _? etc. If a Deaf person were to say this to my ASL teacher (I’m in California) I’m sure they would pass it on.

By: Michael

Michael — Mon, 03 Dec 2007 23:38:07 +0000

Wow,
Oscar makes an interesting point. The Deaf community is a tight community and very insulated by need. Many in the hearning community look upon Deafness as a disability, requiring vast amounts of HELP from us hearies. However, part of the problem is indeed a lack of understanding obviously on our parts, but also a lack of sharing from the Deaf community, e.g HELP to bring us in.

That being said….
I’ve always wanted to sign. Many years ago I took some classes and can express myself quite well. My receptive skills are entirely another matter. Yes, I NEED HELP. YES, it would take extra effort for me to be “included” in the conversation.
However, that’s just fine!!!!! Why is it the job of the Deaf community to TEACH me? I have never felt comfortable with the idea of “meet the deaf”. Please, do I “meet the French?”. Years ago I travelled in social circles that many Deaf were part of. Conversation was relaxed, normal etc. I was completely included because I was “part” of the group. The idea of going to a special place to use ASL and learn a language is wonderful. But that place is not “ohh, lets find some Deaf folk hanging out and “sign” with them. If someone wants to hangout with people interested in learning/practicing their skills in a language, then great. But I don’t feel it’s proper to go to a place where I know people gather who just happen to use ASL and watch, let alone interrupt their space. It’s downright rude to me. When I see some people speaking French I don’t just say hi because they are speaking another language…..

I do however totally agree with Oscars comment of having an open dialog. You can never go wrong by honestly and respectfully sharing your feelings. The key word is respect. Even “vampires” must first be “invited” in before going about with their business.

As far as the Deaf community wanting it “both ways”. Hmmm, I want things “both ways”, “three ways” and “all ways” and I represent the biggest community around, the “human” one.

And in closing (boy I talk a lot don’t I), no matter how much I try, I will never “truly” understand the “other’s” position. When Mayfaries says “it’s a Deaf thing”, I believe there is a great deal of truth to that.

Thanks for reading.

By: Mayfairies

Mayfairies — Fri, 30 Nov 2007 03:54:12 +0000

To Oscar- You have to be Deaf to understand! Not everyday, we see other Deaf People so it is like the only time we can talk to each other. It makes us happy. For us to spend time with ASL students, it’s work and it is not fun. You need patience and when you are good at signing, they will talk to you.

By: Oscar

Oscar — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 01:31:04 +0000

I don’t even know how to begin! Deaf people can make me so angry with their double standards. (Sorry I have to use the “English” phrase “double standard” here because I don’t know how to write it in ASL. [You can look it up in an English dictionary if you need to.]) I’m not going to worry about niceties here like whether I should call it “Deaf Coffee” or “ASL Coffee”. I always feel like I’m walking on thin ice when communicating with deaf people because we “hearing people” always have to watch out for what we’re saying. Can’t offend the poor deaf people! So fragile! Must treat them with respect! And yet the deaf people I know (and see on blogs and vlogs) are always demanding to be treated like everyone else. I respect people who deserve it, deaf or not. You want to be treated as equals? Well here it is! Besides the fact that you can’t hear, I really don’t see you as being ANY different from hearing people. You can be just as bitter and thoughtless and you think that no one has it worse than you. Poor you! So many of you complain that we “hearing people” don’t understand and/or respect you. But how the hell CAN we when you keep yourselves so isolated in your own little sheltered communities. I would LOVE to improve my ASL. I think it’s one of the most beautiful languages in the world. There’s only one problem with it – deaf people tend to use it to isolate themselves, to separate themselves and use it as a marker to identify their own community – their “group”. It helps to create the “us” and “them” dichotomy. It always sounds like people are struggling to prove that ASL is a language. Yes, OK! We got it! It’s a language. Yay for you! Now that we’ve all cleared that up, why don’t you use it like every other language in the world. I speak six languages including ASL (oops! another walking-on-thin-ice mistake? ASL can’t be spoken, can it – only signed.) I speak five languages and I can hold a decent conversation in ASL. Every single language was hard to learn, but ASL was the most annoying. Mostly because a lot deaf people love to complain about everything and anything. I’m not talking about ALL deaf people, just the ones with a chip on their shoulder. And some have got some giant chips! If you’re really angry about my long comment, you might want to check your own shoulder. I talk to everyone like this – honestly and openly. I tell them what I think. Deaf people are no exception. You don’t need to like what I’m writing (and, as a matter of fact, you don’t even need to read it) but it would be nice if you thought a bit about it. I was really angry when I started writing, but I’m getting over that now. I don’t want to be crass but I also don’t want to censor myself just because I might hurt someone’s overly sensitive feelings. (I know I was very bitter and sarcastic at the beginning of this message, but I DO want to preserve my initial feelings without hiding anything. I think open dialogue is the best solution.) I may be wrong, but I see so many examples that tell me that some of what I say is true. Now let me get back to my initial reason for writing. I’m an American living in Germany. I’m a full time English teacher. It’s my job to teach English to people who want it or not. People can sit in my classroom for hours and even years but there will never be a better teacher than real life experience. This is true of ALL languages. (And ASL is a language, right?) Do you think that I learned advanced German before I started speaking to Germans? Hell no! It was a slow and painful process and the Germans that were patient enough and kind enough to help me with mistakes and grammar and VOCABLULARY (see comment from “DS” Nov 11, 2007) NEVER said that I was wasting their time! (How selfish and lazy of you DS!) They were impressed and grateful that someone was putting in the time, energy and money that it takes to learn their language. How DARE you say that ASL students are wasting your time! Who do you think this is for? Do you think they’re learning ASL for profit or for their own benefit? That makes me furious! People are making a serious effort to give your community exactly what so many of you in the deaf community are asking for – understanding and equality. This is how you treat them. I teach English at LEAST eight hours a day and I’m STILL happy to speak slow, easy and broken English to beginners outside of class. We me for lunch, for a beer and we chat, learn about each other and have fun. If you don’t want to chat with ASL students then go to a place where you know they won’t be. “sara g” said, “It does not make sense to me that ASL students have to go to Deaf functions while Spanish or French or German students do not have to.” Well, “sara g”, 400-500 million people speak Spanish, 200-500 million speak French, and around 130 million people speak German. Compare that with the 500 THOUSAND-2 million that use sign language and you can clearly see that finding a practice partner might me slightly harder to find. (That’s like trying to learn Latvian! And there are NO ASL classes in Germany!) It still seems incredibly selfish to me for you to even suggest the idea that they are bothering you or “wasting your time”! It seems like a lot of the issues in the deaf community come from within. We “hearing” are not without our faults, but you cannot condemn us and reject our efforts at the same time! German does not belong to the Germans, English does not belong to the English and ASL does not belong to the Deaf. Languages belong to no one! (- except fake languages like Klingon and Elvish.) I know this message will make a lot of people angry but open dialogue often does that. Don’t reply with short, spiteful and biting remarks. If your angry, take some time and be constructive. We can have constructive criticism without childish fighting. And read everything I wrote. Don’t select parts of the texts to attack my comment. Look at the big picture. The Deaf community, just like every other community, has its positive and negative aspects. Today I only talked about the negative ones. I have tons to say about the positive things!